murray3

Philip Murray and Elizabeth Martin

    Philip Murray and Elizabeth Martin were the probable parents of our Philip Murray. The name Philip is not too common in the Murray line, and tends to travel down well through the generations, thus making the family a little easier to spot in the parish records. Philip and Elizabeth lived in Edinburgh in the late 1700's. They had children baptised in Edinburgh and St. Cuthbert's in Edinburgh during that period in time. Philip and Elizabeth married in Edinburgh on Jan 23, 1774, and had children;
    1.James Murray baptised Oct 4 1776 Edinburgh
    2.Helen Murray baptised June 5 1780 in St Cuthbert's Edinburgh
    3.Philip Murray baptised June 5 1780 St Cuthbert's Edinburgh
    Note that the last two children, Helen and Philip were baptised on the same day. Were they twins? Or were they simply baptised on the same day, as sometimes was done? Probably it is the latter case, and either Helen or Philip was born in 1778, and the other one was born in 1780.
    Who was Elizabeth Martin? If she was married in 1774, and was approximately age 21 at time of marriage, she would have been born circa 1753 or so. James was most likely her firstborn son, and Philip was her 2nd born son. Again, clearly Philip is a Murray name, so it is most likely possible that James was named for his maternal grandfather. If so, Elizabeth Martin's father's name was probably James Martin. There is an Elizabeth Martin baptised in Coldingham to a James Martine on March 31 1751 - this is probably her. Unfortunately, no mother's name is given.

Going back even further, who were Philip Murray's parents? If he married Elizabeth Martin in 1774, and if he was approximately age 21 at the time of his marriage, he would have been born circa 1753. Since his 2nd born son was named Philip, it is most likely that Philip's father's name was Philip as well. In searching for a Philip Murray born circa 1753 to a Philip Murray, we come across a Philip Moray (Murray) baptised on Sept 16, 1750 to a Philip Moray (Murray) and Elizabeth Camble of Dalgetty. This is most likely him, if so, he would have been age 24 at the time of his marriage to Elizabeth Martin.

Going back another generation, who were Philip Murray and Elizabeth Camble (Campbell) of Dalgetty? If son Philip was born in 1750, and Philip Senior was about age 30 years or so, he would have been born circa 1720. We find a Philip Murray baptised April 19, 1713 in Selkirk, to a John Murray and Marion Robertson of Selkirk. If this is him, he would have been age 37 when his son Philip was born.

    Who was John Murray, father of Philip Murray? Who was Marion Robertson of Selkirk? Their marriage took place on Nov 3 1703 in Selkirk. Marion was the daughter of Andrew Robertson and Janet Johnstone of Aberlady Scotland, who were married in April of 1670. John Murray and Marion Robertson had children;
    1.Robert Murray baptised 1705 Selkirk
    2.Elizabeth (Bessie) Murray baptised 1708 Selkirk
    3.Andrew Murray baptised 1710 Selkirk
    4.Philip Murray baptised April 19 1713 Selkirk
    Since John and Marion married in 1703, probably, their firstborn son Robert was named for John Murray's father. Obviously he is not named for Marion's father, who is Andrew Robertson. It is most likely that John Murray's father's name was Robert Murray. Who was daughter Elizabeth named for? Since there is no daughter named Janet for Marion's mother, it is likely that they had a daughter named Janet who died - she could have been born in 1704, before son Robert, or she could have been born in 1706, between Robert and Elizabeth.

    Who were the parents of John Murray? If he married Marion in 1703, and was about 20 years of age at the time of his marriage, he would have been born circa 1683 or so. If he named his firstborn son after his father as was usually the case, then his father's name would have been Robert Murray. There were two listings for a John Murray born to a Robert Murray about this time.
1.John Murray baptised Dec 8 1775 in Newbattle, to Robert Murray and Helen Watsone
2.John Murray baptised Aug 31 1679 in West Calder to Robert Murray and Helen Ochiltrey.
    It is possible our John Murray's parents were one of these two couples, but unlikly because John did not name one of his daughters Helen, after his mother. (Unless they had a daughter named Helen who died.) We know that Elizabeth was not the name of Marion's mother, so it was most probably the name of John's mother, meaning that neither one of these two couples would be the parents)
    Our tracing must unfortunately end at this point. We can assume that John Murray's father's name was probably Robert Murray, and if Robert was about age 25 years when John was born, then he would have been born circa 1658 or so. It is possible that this Robert Murray's wife's name was Elizabeth.

                                        Murray Conjectural Tree
Robert Murray born circa 1658 possibly in Selkirk area Scotland married Elizabeth(?) Unknown, with children;
                                                      John
                                                      b. c1683

John Murray born circa 1683 possibly Selkirk married Nov 3 1703 Selkirk, Marion Robertson of Selkirk, d/o Andrew Robertson and Janet Johnstone of Aberlady who married in April of 1670.
Robert Janet(?) Elizabeth(Bessie) Andrew Philip
1705 1706? 1708 1710 1713

Philip Moray (Murray) baptised April 19 1713 Selkirk, married Elizabeth Camble (Campbell) of Dalgetty on Sept 16 1750. with children;
Philip
1750

Philip Murray baptised Sept 16 1750 married Elizabeth Martin in Edinburgh on Jan 23 1774, probable d/o James Martine of Edinburgh. With children;
James Helen Philip
1776 1780 1780

Philip Murray baptised June 5 1780 St Cuthbert's Edinburgh married circa 1795 Agnes Mcknight, or Macnaught born circa 1778. (No marriage record can be found for them, nor records of Agnes Mcknight's birth) With children baptised in Paisley Middle Church
John Philip Robert William Philip Philip George(?)
1795 1797 1799 1802 1804 1806 - son John born circa 1831

John Murray baptised Feb 5 1795 Paisley Middle Church, married Jean McRoberts.(Possibly her name was Jane Robertson, if so, they married in 1824 in Old Monkend, and she was d/o William Robertson and Elizabeth Ryburn of Greenock or Old West. It is possible they had children born between 1825 and 1829 who died, if so, they could have been named Philip and Elizabeth. William, born in 1829 in Balmaclellan, is the first child listed as being baptised on the Parish records - he could have been named for William Robertson, if he was in fact father of Jean McRoberts.) Jean McRoberts obituary lists her as being born in 1796 in Kirkudbrightshire) Daughter Agnes would have been named for John Murray's mother Agnes Mcknight, but it is a mystery who Dorothia was named for.
Philip(?) Elizabeth(?) William Agnes Dorothia
c1825? c1827? 1829 1832 1838

Dorothia Murray born July 21 1838 Brantford Plains Ontario Canada married in 1861 Robert Smith. With children;
Agnes John Jane-Mcroberts Margaret-Young-Yuill Robert Mary Elizabeth William Alice
1862 1863 1867 1869 1871 1874 1877 1878 1881

Daughter Agnes would have been named for Robert Smith's mother Agnes Archibald, and Dorothia Murray's grandmother Agnes Mcknight. John would have been named for maternal grandfather John Murray. Jane McRoberts Smith was named for her maternal grandmother Jean McRoberts. Margaret Young Yuill Smith was named for Robert Smith's grandmothers Margaret Young and Margaret Yuill. Robert would have been named for his paternal grandfather Robert Smith. Mary would have been named for ? Elizabeth could have been named for Dorothia's grandmother Elizabeth Ryburn, possible mother of Jean Mcroberts. William could have been named for Dorothia's grandfather William Robertson, possible father of Jean McRoberts, as well as a William Smith on the Smith side. Alice was named for Alice Ratcliffe, who was wife of Andrew Archibald, a relative of Robert Smith.

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